Lula’s Jornal Nacional Interview Puts Brazil’s Debt and His Son in the Spotlight

BRAZIL · POLITICS

President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva shrugged off Brazil’s public debt, promised not to shield his son from the Federal Police and pledged a new security ministry in a prime-time Jornal Nacional interview. The fallout arrived within hours, in photographs and in court.

A prime-time grilling five weeks before Brazil votes

The Jornal Nacional interview aired on Thursday 27 August, right after Brazil’s most-watched news bulletin. Anchors César Tralli and Renata Vasconcellos questioned the president for about 40 minutes.

It was the fourth of six candidate interviews in Globo’s pre-election series. Romeu Zema, Ronaldo Caiado and Renan Santos came earlier in the week, and Flávio Bolsonaro sits down on 28 August.

Lula arrived with two problems dominating the news. Both came up in the first minutes, and neither was resolved by the end.

What Lula said about Brazil’s public debt

The sharpest exchange of the night came on the economy. Brazil’s gross public debt has passed R$ 10 trillion (US$1.94 trillion) and now stands near 82 percent of gross domestic product.

Asked where he wants that ratio in four years, Lula set no target. “The public debt does not worry me,” he told Vasconcellos.

His argument is that growth will do the work. As the economy expands, he said, the debt shrinks as a share of output.

He compared Brazil with richer nations carrying heavier burdens. He named the United States at 120 percent of gross domestic product, plus Japan and Italy.

Then came the sentence his opponents replayed overnight. “If there is anyone in this country with fiscal responsibility, it is me,” he declared.

He noted that he ran primary surpluses for eight years in his first two terms. He said he inherited a deficit of 2.8 percent of gross domestic product in January 2023.

This year’s budget, he said, closes with a small primary surplus. He blamed interest rates of 14 percent a year for pushing the debt stock up.

Three police inquiries, one son and a lobbyist

The Jornal Nacional interview’s most tense passage dealt with family. Three Federal Police inquiries now target the president’s eldest son, Fábio Luís Lula da Silva, known as Lulinha.

Investigators suspect corruption and influence trafficking inside the Planalto palace, the Health Ministry and the state technology firm Dataprev. They say he held a hidden partnership with businessman Fernando Bittar and lobbyist Roberta Luchsinger.

Lula rejected the framing. “There are no accusations, there are insinuations drawn from telephone calls,” he said.

He then promised no protection. “There will not be one millimetre of movement from the presidency to protect my son,” he said.

If Fábio Luís broke the law, Lula said, he will pay like any Brazilian. If he did not, he will prove his innocence inside the inquiries.

Lula added that intercepted phone conversations justify nothing by themselves. He said no proof exists of one public cent, or of any talk between his son and a minister.

The denial that collided with the photographs

Midway through the Jornal Nacional interview, Vasconcellos asked about Luchsinger directly. Messages on the lobbyist’s phone claim Lula once told her to “choose where you want to stay” in his government.

The president denied knowing her at all. “I never saw this woman in my life, I never spoke to her, she was never close to me,” he said.

Within hours, that answer fell apart in public. Flávio Bolsonaro posted four photographs on X showing Lula beside Luchsinger, drawn from her own verified Instagram account.

“Lying is all he knows,” the senator wrote above the images. One photo shows the lobbyist making the “L” hand sign of Lula’s 2022 campaign, and another wishes him happy birthday in 2023.

Luchsinger is a target of Operation Sem Desconto, which investigates pension fraud and influence peddling. She faced search and seizure in December 2025 and now wears an electronic ankle monitor.

Investigators count more than 40 of her visits to ministries. They trace R$ 1.5 million (US$291,000) in transfers to her company, with Lulinha named as an indirect beneficiary.

Her defense says the money came from the cannabidiol business. Lulinha’s lawyers deny he received any undue advantage and call the leaked messages a selective cut.

The pension scandal and the former chief of staff

The Jornal Nacional interview also returned to the scandal of illegal discounts taken from pensioners. More than four million retirees were hit between 2019 and 2024, and the fraud may exceed R$ 6 billion (US$1.16 billion).

Lula said his government has already returned R$ 3.5 billion (US$680 million) to victims. He said assets seized from the gangs will reimburse the treasury in full.

He was pressed on Marco Aurélio Santana Ribeiro, his former chief of staff, known as Marcola. Police say Luchsinger paid his bills, financed a car and bought him jewellery.

Marcola calls it a loan of R$ 249,000 (US$48,300) and says he repaid it. “It is totally wrong,” Lula conceded, though he said he believes the loan version for now.

Lula also promised an announcement within days on the pension waiting queue. It has stood near 1.3 million people and will be declared cleared next week, he said.

A ministry of public security, promised for “the following week”

On crime, Lula made his one firm policy pledge of the night. Once Congress passes his public-security constitutional amendment, he said, he will create a Ministry of Public Security.

“Approving the amendment, I create the ministry the following week,” he said. He added that he had already spoken with Senate president Davi Alcolumbre about moving it along.

The idea is to define what the federal government, the states and the municipalities each do. Lula wants heavy investment in intelligence to, in his words, recover the people’s territory from organised crime.

Vasconcellos noted that his Workers’ Party has governed Bahia for 20 years. The state holds five of Brazil’s ten most violent cities.

“Don’t be unfair to Bahia,” Lula answered. “No governor in Brazil has solved public security.”

The electoral court fight over the Alvorada palace

Even before the Jornal Nacional interview went to air, the legal counterattack had begun. Flávio Bolsonaro’s lawyers petitioned the Superior Electoral Court on 27 August against Lula’s use of the Alvorada palace.

The target is a separate interview, recorded with Record TV at the official residence on Sunday 23 August. It aired while rival candidates faced strict debate rules, the petition says.

The filing cites the electoral law that bars using Union property to benefit a candidate. It also recalls a 2022 ruling that stopped Jair Bolsonaro from broadcasting campaign lives from the same palace.

The campaign wants Lula barred from recording electoral content at Alvorada. It also wants excerpts of the Record interview kept out of his television advertising.

The case landed with the court’s president, Justice Kassio Nunes Marques. There was no decision by the time this article went to press.

Why the night matters for Brazil’s race

Brazil votes in the first round on 4 October, and the race is a statistical tie nationally. The latest Quaest numbers put Lula and Flávio Bolsonaro level, as we reported this week.

Analysts expect the opposition to keep the son’s case alive until election day. Political scientist Leandro Gabiati told Gazeta do Povo that further leaks would wear Lula down with moderate voters.

The Globo series continues on Friday 28 August with Flávio Bolsonaro himself. His turn in the same chair will answer the claims from Lula’s Jornal Nacional interview.

For the president, the risk of this Jornal Nacional interview is clear. Every denial he made will now be checked against the next photograph.

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Sources: TV Globo (full transcript via Poder360, 28 August 2026), G1, CNN Brasil, Jovem Pan, UOL Notícias, Metrópoles, Terra. Exchange rate on 28 August 2026: US$1 = R$ 5.15.

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