RIO DE JANEIRO, BRAZIL – Removed from office since August 28th by the Superior Court of Justice (STJ), on suspicion of corruption, Rio de Janeiro governor Wilson Witzel, fires out against President Jair Bolsonaro, to whom he constantly refers as his executioner.
In an interview with VEJA at the Laranjeiras Palace, where he continues to live with his wife, Helena and three of their four children, he delves deep into the events that, in his perspective, led to the widening of the gap that now divides him from Bolsonaro – whose support was decisive in his successful election campaign for governor.
The ex-federal judge, target of two search and seizure warrants by the Federal Police, claims that the presidential wrath was kindled in the first meeting, where he outlined his plan to reach the highest post in the Planalto – “an act of political inexperience,” he concedes, wary. He says he began to be targeted for leading a key state for the Bolsonaro clan.
In today’s silent palace, where one can hear the tinkling of cutlery, he dedicates his time to his defense in order to avoid the political fate of impeachment. He maintains that his political career is not over and that the presidential dream is still vibrant. But should he feel that institutions are conspiring against him, he confides: he may seek political asylum. Where? “I think Canada.”
Q: To what extent is your removal from the government linked to the rifts with the Bolsonaro family?
The President is only thinking about his re-election in 2022 and believes that all his opponents need to be taken down. This started back when Bolsonaro had just won and told me he wouldn’t run for a second term. Then I, also newly elected, said right at our first meeting: “Shall we work together? I want the opportunity to run for the Planalto”. It didn’t take long before he began to say that the governor of Rio, a former federal judge who knows how to manipulate evidence, wanted to destroy his family out of greed for power.
Q: Do you regret this conversation?
I regret it. I gave him cause to build a narrative against me. For Bolsonaro’s voters, I am the number one traitor. It was an act of political inexperience.
Q: It was surely not only this conversation that shook the relationship between you.
One day I ran into the President at a TCU judge’s birthday party. He called me to a corner and asked, “Governor, do not do anything against my sons.” I asked: “But do what?” And he said: “No harm”. He thought I would plant evidence against his sons, Carlos, Flávio. As you know, there are sensitive investigations in Rio de Janeiro involving the family. It is no overstatement to say that the Republic currently revolves around protecting Flávio Bolsonaro.
Q: Can you be more specific?
The Federal Prosecutor’s Office has been partially co-opted and does what is in the government’s interest. So do the Federal Police.
Q: The rupture with the President deepened when the Rio police disclosed the names of the suspects in the murder of city councilor Marielle Franco, how was this discussed?
Q: Yes. When I took over, I ordered them to thoroughly investigate the case. I had never heard of the names Ronnie Lessa and Élcio de Queiroz until they were arrested, suspects in the execution. Then my police secretary calls me and says: “These arrests could have major repercussions. Maybe they could affect the image of politicians.” When I heard that Lessa was the President’s neighbor in Rio, I realized the extent of the problem. I met with Bolsonaro at a ceremony in Itaguaí in October 2019. “The next one to take over the presidency of the country will need to know how to govern without cowardice,” he shot, and looked at me angrily. Soon after the story broke about the condo gatekeeper who supposedly called his house on the day of the crime, announcing the arrival of one of the murderers. Bolsonaro claims that I leaked this information. That’s a lie.
Q: The widow of the militiaman and ex-BOPE (tactical unit of the State Police) captain, Adriano da Nóbrega, said that you were involved in his death, in Bahia. She also said that you had received campaign money from him. Is this so?
Q: I only learned about this operation in Bahia and about the death of Captain Adriano when my police secretary, Marcus Vinícius Braga, called me to report it. He was even effusive, which at the time surprised me: “We killed Captain Adriano,” he reported. Until that time, I did not even know who Adriano was. So, his funds in my campaign, not a chance.
Q: And what do you now know about Adriano?
He was a friend of the Bolsonaro family, he even had relatives working in Flávio’s office (then a state deputy), involved in the salary kickback scheme (“splitting”). The information that reached me was that Adriano could have a similar involvement in the ‘splitting’ as Fabricio Queiroz did.
Q: On what basis would this involvement occur?
I don’t know the details.
Q: In your defense submitted to the ALERJ joint committee, which will decide on your impeachment, you blame the corruption within the Rio government on your officials. With this much embezzlement in progress, were you not at least remiss?
Q: If I hadn’t allowed the control instruments to work, yes, I would have been remiss. But I did the opposite. I asked Secretary of Health Edmar Santos to solve the problems of Social Organizations that had contracts with the government. Then I ordered an audit, which ran for ten months and identified overbilling in these contracts.
Q: Why did you give the go-ahead for the continuation of these contracts despite knowing that these Social Organizations had issues?
I can not authorize each contract, with this or that company. In the case of one of these organizations, Unir, I was summoned to arbitrate as governor. And I decided to reclassify it because it wasn’t one of the worst.
Q: Shouldn’t the public funds be protected?
If I had cancelled the contract with this organization, I would have had to reproduce that decision with respect to all the others. And how would we replace these professionals in the midst of a pandemic? With the State in Fiscal Recovery, you can’t hold public tenders. The solution that was being considered was to replace these organizations with the State Health Foundation or to transfer the hospitals to public-private partnerships.
Q: What about the pile of R$8 million found with your ex-Secretary of Health?
To begin with, of these R$8 million, Edmar declares that R$7 million refers to the time when he was director of Pedro Ernesto Hospital, between 2016 and 2019, having spent only one year in my government.
Q: But there could not have been a single cent embezzled, correct?
No, but this R$1 million difference close to a budget of R$5 billion is minimal. You will never achieve full effectiveness in fighting corruption.
Q: A denunciation concerns an amount of R$50 million that would have been drained by corruption in your management. What about this money?
So far, the Prosecutor’s Office has not proven any of this, nor has it found a cent in my account.
Q: As soon as you were removed, Claudio Castro, the now acting governor, approached the Bolsonaros. Did you feel betrayed?
I don’t have any kind of resentment. Claudio Castro does not fit in the narrative built against me by the Bolsonaro family. The approach is a survival step for him, logically.
Q: You say you will return to the government. What do you base this on?
I was victim of a farce that will be legally deconstructed. The mixed court has to judge according to the evidence in the case file, in a technical way. If it doesn’t, the trial may be overturned.
Q: The contracts of First Lady Helena Witzel’s law firm are mentioned in the investigations. Could you have problems because of this?
The office is only relevant in this context because the companies (Helena’s clients) are reported to be connected to Mário Peixoto (arrested on suspicion of embezzlement in Health). But Operation Favorito still couldn’t prove that he was the real administrator of these companies that hired my wife.
Q: What about the telephone intercept in which one of Peixoto’s operators mentions your name?
It’s the only thing that places me in this whole mess. No conclusion can be reached from that.
Q: Does the comparison between Helena and the former first lady Adriana Ancelmo, also an attorney, make sense?
It’s odd. Adriana Ancelmo had a contract with Oi, with CEDAE. One of her contracts alone amounted to R$11 million. Helena’s was no more than R$50,000 a month. And the companies that hired her, I assure you, have no relationship with the state government.
Q: And Helena’s work with the PSC, her party, is it not a mixture of interests?
No, and the plan was to leave it as the office grew.
Q: Are you afraid of being arrested?
There is no evidence to decree my arrest.
Q: Do you still plan to be President of the Republic?
My mission in politics is only just beginning. I still have a patriotic feeling of becoming president.
Q: What if you are ultimately removed permanently – what will you do?
Q: If I realize that there is political persecution and co-optation of institutions against me and my family, I intend to seek political asylum in Canada. I can get a job anywhere in the world.
Source: Veja